For the most part, people use this to try and say homosexuality is okay. I find that a problem. I find that a big problem. After all, I thought humans were supposed to be evolved beyond basic animalistic tendencies. Using this argument to try and prove what many view to be a lifestyle choice doesn't work very well.
May I draw you to this stamp [link] that explains the issue in better words than I ever could? Well, I just did so I will continue.
Animals do a lot of things that we find rather disgusting if a human does it. Like cannibalism for an example.
Links to Cannibalism:
[link](zoology) -for a general idea of it in the wild.
Let's see, what else is out there? Oh yes! Rape in animals!
Of course, when searching for this on the internet, I mostly find shit about human abuse to animals concerning this subject. I'm not going to dig through the internet to find this stuff.
Now, what else can I list? Oh, wait, killing!
If I had the mindset to think of the right keywords, I would probably have a better time finding what I'm looking for. As it is, I have a head cold, so my research skills are down. Anyway, the list could go on and I'm sure if I looked harder under all categorical abominations (or what are considered abominations in the human race). My point is that if people are going to try and prove something right, they might not want to use the animal kingdom as a reliable source. Yes, I'm especially talking to you evolutionists who loooove using this excuse. Find something else, please?
Actually, if there are any other arguments out there, please feel free to comment and tell me the other reasons. I'm not as interested in refuting them as I am interested in knowing what people are saying.
[link] Adding this because it accurately illustrates the sheer stupidity of the "animals do it so its okay" argument.
That's not what evolution is about AT ALL. The basic concept of evolution is about a species changing to adapt to a specific or to multiple environments so they can survive & reproduce.
Also, views on cannibalism range from culture to culture. Most cultures (including western culture) view it as immoral. There are however, many cultures that don't, and practice it whenever a member of their community has died as a way to honour them.
The point of the argument that "animals do it too" is to show you that humans really aren't much different to animals. Which we're not. We're not the only species to use tools, practice farming, keep pets, or in this case, partake in gay sex.
Humans will always have instincts considered to be "animalistic" (I.e. sexuality, aggression, etc) because humans ARE animals. The fact that most of us live in houses hasn't changed that.
EDIT: Also, I would just like to point out. While the post you linked is right in some parts, never the less has a very poor understanding of animal phycology & behavior.
I would point out why this is, except the topic of animal behaviour is so vast & complicated & even I only have a very basic understanding of it.
Oh god, I am laughing so f*cking hard...
Umm...no. Humans have evolved a certain way, but we are still animals and behave as such.
People only use this defense in response to the hilariously wrong claim that "all homo sex is unnatural." Clearly, if other animals are doing it, it's not unnatural.
Using this argument to try and prove what many view to be a lifestyle choice doesn't work very well.
Except being gay is not something someone "chooses" to do any more than you can choose your height.
Animals do a lot of things that we find rather disgusting if a human does it.
And notice how all of those somehow require harming other individuals (cannibalism being the exception). A consensual homosexual relationship between two adults, on the other hand, is not harmful.
But I see what they're trying to say. Being gay is set apart from those other things e.g murder, rape ext because it doesn't involve the pain of another human being. Those things cause pain to others, which is considered immoral, but being attracted to the same sex as you doesn't hurt anybody. Its a weak argument, but it has its footing.
[[ "animals eat food off the ground, but when i do it, why do i feel weird after?" ]]
It's a rebuttal to people who say homosexuality is unnatural so it's not okay. It leaves people only to rely on the scriptures as "proof" against homosexuality or "it's icky so I think it's wrong!" which is an even poorer argument.
If you don't like homosexuality for your own reasons that's fine, but if you support legislation banning same-sex marriage or discrimination against the gay community that's when it crosses line for me.
Either way, I wish you the best. I try not to be too aggressive if it can be helped.
???? how was I supposed to know your tragic backstory before commenting? I'm only commenting on what I already know about you, which is that you are very hateful. Look, I am really sorry about the fact you've been sexually abused. That's horrible and no child should ever have to go through that. But that's about where the sympathy ends. You think I haven't been bullied like absolute fuck? You think gay people haven't been bullied by insensitive jerks. Now, I don't know what "LGBTs" have done to you but homosexuality is not a religion, and I don't know why you're so against all types of love love.
"Also unlike homosexuality, in which is wrong, heterosexuality is okay and it is not wrong in any shape nor form. That's something everyone can agree on without throwing a meltdown."
Um. No. No, actually I don't think homosexuality is wrong, thanks. I think it is love and love is perfectly natural. If anything I don't know why you are shoving your beliefs down our throats and into our television. Television isn't just for straight people you know. If you, a straight person, don't want to see gays in a TV program, flick to any other channel ever. I guarantee you will fine more straight white heteros any where you look.
Also if you have so much empathy to people being bullied. Why not start by not making people feel uncomfortable in their own identity. If you can't see that you're part of the problem then you're blind to yourself. Please, I'm begging you just don't spread hate. Yes, that comment about the things you like was immature. I apologise. I'm just so sick of this happening every time I log onto deviantart. Can you please just take down your offensive stamps and try to understand where I'm coming from? We've both been bullied for liking what we like, maybe we can both try and be a little more accepting?
At least in the states discrimination is being more discouraged and many more states have same-sex marriage than even 5 years ago! I think more people are realizing loved ones and friends who have come out are still the same great people that they were before coming out.
Also, just saying you're name is "TheiCarlyAngel" and you're not even in high school yet. Maybe you should wait until you have a better understanding of basic human empathy like every other normal human being
Also are you kidding...? You're... wow... I cannot even respond to that... age and what grade you are in has nothing to do with maturity and empathy. Just LOOK at your own post.
Hey, look. I've been bullied too, okay? I been through fudging Hell and back and I am trying to save my own butt on staying strong and being kind and respectful to others. I've been sexually abused ever since I was a little girl and was FORCED to watch porn and become this 'little good cum girl' and stare at photos of naked woman and men and even girl and girl and men and men jacking it off with one another. I've also been bullied since the 3rd grade and I know exactly the guy who started it. I was never EVER accepted by anyone in my school because of what I liked and was made fun of my happiness and kindness and they made me cry everyday in class. Also guess what you special little snowflake, I've also gotten my heart BROKEN by a guy who abandoned me and left me to worry and he simply didn't care for me at all. Seriously, sometimes at nights or even at days I cry because my heart is hurt. I really am hurt and confused (but not that confused where I have to follow your homosexual religion, NO THANKS) on what to do with myself right now. There are days I wished I was in Heaven right than Earth. Days I wished I didn't exist or have amnesia where I can feel happiness JUST like I did when I was a little girl (before becoming introduced by sex) and I was Easter-egg hunting and spinning in circles happily. I much rather feel innocence than feeling like no one is here for you. In real life, I have no one to hold onto nor I can rely on. I am thankful for my online friends because they understand my hurt and everything about me. Sometimes I wonder, "How come making friends online is easier than in real life?" So what exactly do you mean by not feeling ANY empathy, again? -_- In fact, It's hard for me to feel sorry for any of the LGBTs when they have treated me disrespectful when I have done nothing wrong AND are forcing their beliefs on me. Look, do whatever makes you happy. I'm blocking you because this whole conversation is now reaching to a negative level. You obviously won't understand, so I don't get WHY I even bothered. You don't know me in real life to even make that statement a fact. So before you accuse me, do your research.
Ironically, I get more Christians doing that to me than gay people.
Also unlike homosexuality, in which is wrong, heterosexuality is okay and it is not wrong in any shape nor form. That's something everyone can agree on without throwing a meltdown
Actually, there is nothing objectively wrong with being gay.
In fact, It's hard for me to feel sorry for any of the LGBTs when they have treated me disrespectful when I have done nothing wrong AND are forcing their beliefs on me.
Having a problem with LGBTQ individuals who are assholes is one thing. Hating on them all because you met some bad ones, on the other hand, is silly at best.
Keep in mind that Christians, for many years, outright murdered gay people, and when they couldn't do that, they inflicted other indignities on them (just read about what happened to Alan Turing if you want a historical example).
I respect your opinion.
I've met some good ones, but me feeling sorry for every last one of them is just hard to do.
If any Christian does that, than they are not Christians and that sounds more like the SJW than Christians/Catholics.
The bible teaches love and not hate,
No it isn't. There is nothing to suggest this.
If any Christian does that, than they are not Christians and that sounds more like the SJW than Christians/Catholics.
No True Scotsman fallacy. Those people are Christians as much as anyone else.
The bible teaches love and not hate,
We must be reading very different Bibles, then. Love is the last thing I'd describe as coming from a book that condones slavery and genocide and promises an eternal, fiery punishment for those who don't believe.
Christians do not bash at people. They are not worthy nor holy to be a Christian.
We must and you must be reading a very inaccurate bible written by an idiot.
The point is that this particular argument - "It is natural among animals, therefore it should be acceptable among people" - is extremely flawed and "moronic" since animals do many things that are unacceptable in human society.
Natural =/= good. That is what this stamp is about.
Also how the heck are rape and homosexuality the same? No one wants to accept rape, there's a whole movement dedicated to gay rights. Homosexual relationships are usually consensual, and rape isn't there is a difference arguing rape and relationships are the same is stupid.
Animals rape each other.
Animals commit acts of incest all the time.
Animals murder each other - male, female, young, or old.
Animals shun each other just because of their size or smell.
Animals will kill children of other animals in order to have sex with the female/mother.
Animals are cannibals.
All of those things are "natural" and "normal" in nature. That does not mean they should be normal in our human society.
"Also how the heck are rape and homosexuality the same?"
^ Well, animals rape each other… It's all natural and normal for animals, why can't people do the same?
I can see the silliness in trying to compare humans and animals completely but that's not what people are doing with that arguement, they're just proving it's not unnatural. Animals are halfway to being humans because humans have a lot of urges which echo theirs except we are more evolved and intelligent because we picked a good path of evolution.
You didn't read my first comment correctly. I explained why they're different so either you're being purposesfully condescending or just simply didn't understand.
Rape= non consensual sex, a physical and psychological attack on a person which is immoral because it can cause great trauma (PTSD, suicidal tendencies etc) to the victim and make them almost unable to function because they can't trust other people and take great pains to get back into society after their attack as a result.
Homosexuality= netrual. I only say neutral because homosexuality is just at it's heart attraction to the same sex. Some use it for bad, but that's like all sexualities and no one wishes to legislate or ban straight people. Some are just normal people who wish to have a relationship just like anyone.
The majority of homosexual sex is consensual and is not rape every single time, it's not a trauma it's something shared between two people.
Heterosexuality is natural, why can't people rape like animals because hets have sex?
(I don't actually believe that it I just wanted to you to know how that sentence looks)
What I am getting at is... even if homosexuality is natural - so what? Rape is also natural. Murder is also natural. Ect.
Whether or not homosexual behaviour is natural has nothing to do with whether or not it should be acceptable. But I'm fairly certain you also understand that. ^^
Human heterosexuality could be seen as dangerous too given that a woman can tear her um...birth canal, her organs shift around during pregnant and women are a little more likely to die when they are pregnant. Not to mention all the diseases you're susceptible to when pregnant. Is pregnancy safe because it's "natural"? Because that's what hetero sex is supposed to lead to without protection..
If you don't like homosexuality that's fine but it's not fair to say it's an unacceptable standard for everyone. Was interracial separation fair for everyone? After all both of those situations ie the acceptance of it is morally neutral...not really right or wrong but can cause more harm to the human race if it's limited excessively.
I will quote myself: "Whether or not homosexual behaviour is natural has nothing to do with whether or not it should be acceptable."
I'm pointing out that just because something is natural, does not mean that it should thus be considered acceptable. I'm specifically referring to people who say, "If it happens in nature, it's therefore okay for it to happen in our society." (i.e., "homosexuality is natural in animals, therefore it is acceptable in human societies")
I'm not arguing whether or not homosexuality itself is acceptable. I'm just pointing out that:
Natural =/= good
Natural =/= acceptable
Does that make sense? It seems quite a few people have misunderstood my purpose here.
What I would REALLY like to know is how so many people started replying at once to me! I always thought I was the only one who used the related tab to find argumentative stamps I like and then read the comments below them. But apparently more people do that than I thought! XD (Or maybe more people just stalk each other's "Recent Activity" feeds more than I thought)
Keep insulting me. Keep throwing personal attacks at me. It just makes your argument look very, very weak if you have to resort to rude comments to defend yourself.
Natural =/= good.
Consensual =/= acceptable.
"Does not harm anyone" has already been addressed with my other arguments.
I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that "homosexuality" is okay. Making simple statements without backing them up means nothing in a debate.
A volcanic eruption of the Krebs Cycle is also natural. Thaf doesn't mean it is morally comparable
Animals rape yet we think rape is bad
animals canibalise we think that canibalism is bad
yet when homosexuality gets brought onto the table it's suddenly "BUT ANIMALS DO IT SO IT'S OK" I understand why it's being said and I don't have anything against homosexuality but it's some really backwards logic
You still missed the point of my stamp.
Since you did, I'll help you.
Consider this: animals don't care whether or not they cause harm to others. They don't have a clue. In many cases, harming another one of their species is an act of dominance (see wolves or any other carnivorous beastie). With people saying humans are no different than animals doesn't that mean animalistic morality is totally and completely up for grabs. Which means that your point is automatically invalid and the case is, most certainly, not closed.
And I never tried to justify harming other people so what are you even talking about? I said homosexuality is OK. That has nothing to do with harming another person, and if you believe that it does then please explain to me how.
The idea that homosexuality doesn't "harm anyone" is only partially true. Perhaps homo/bisexual couples are not immediately damaging their partner like rape or murder would. However, man-on-man intercourse in particular has significant risks; research has shown the fragile anus is not meant to be penetrated, and there are even more imminent risks to fecal exposure.
As stated by Centers For Disease Control and Prevention: "In 2008, men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 63% of primary and secondary syphilis cases in the United States. MSM often are diagnosed with other bacterial STDs, including chlamydia and gonorrhea infections. Gay and bisexual men can be infected with HPV (Human Papillomavirus), the most common STD in the United States. Some types of HPV cause genital and anal warts and some can lead to the development of anal and oral cancer. Men who have sex with men are 17 times more likely to develop anal cancer than heterosexual men."
"Men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 63% of the estimated new HIV infections in 2010… For gay and bisexual men, HIV, hepatitis, and other STDs are of particular concern… The rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM is more than 44 times that of other men, while the rate of primary and secondary syphilis among MSM is more than 46 times that of other men." (Emphasis mine)
There is also the fact that it is mentally harmful, as both lesbians and gays tend to have higher stress levels and periods of depression than heterosexuals. Lesbians also tend to have a higher rate of obesity and smoking (indirect results of a lesbian lifestyle), which increase health risks.
Obviously, it does harm the individuals involved, so you will have to pick a different argument besides that. The burden of proof is on you to support the idea that homosexuality is "okay."